PAssword-protection is often used to - as the word says - to protect the content of the program and the intellectual properties, like anonymous said. I also know from customers that have a very bad paying policy, and there is a limited time, until the program will stop working to amke him pay the money OMRON deserves. The password used for unlocking this function is and should only be available by the responsible OMRON-application engineer to protect the right of OMRON (or the one who has done the programming). ANYTHING ELSE IS ILLEGAL!
The passwords are there just make things hell, when you are trying to repair the machine. Don't give us the IP'rights' bullshit. Anyone who wanted the program could have it by many other ways, but when someone tries to maintain a machine, that's been operating for years without interuptions, then where the hell are you gonna come up with the password? I say crack them all. Who cares about some 5 years old PLC program, unless you want to repair the machine. Stop whining about cracking the password protections. I'll just laugh at you, when you have to reprogram some nicely complex program just because you can't get the password and noone helps you crack it.
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Just my two cents on this topic. Another consideration for the equipment builder is liability (at least in the US). If someone goes in and changes the program and an employee gets hurt, who do you think the lawyers will go after? I know that you could prove that the code had been modified, but only after the time and expense of a court case, having your name dragged through the mud, etc. Yes it is difficult for the customer, but there are ways around the passwords for most controllers.
You will just need to work with the manufacturer of plc system. I think one should keep products and 'oneshot'-lines apart. In products for selling more than one password is ok, but in 'non-copyable' lines it's a good thing to leave the code open.
But the main thing is: Who owns the code? Sometimes you develop something and its already ment to be owned by the customer. (same thing with electrical drawings). I always work with 'open cards on the table' and I think that has given me a better relation to the costumers and they have asked for my help even more.
But as usual there more then one side. Regards Peter. Have a look from the other side of the fence.
Open thine eyes! When I do a job with generators, I put pass word protection on the program due to the defects liability period.
Don't want anyone stuffing around with my program and blowing up a $1 million engine then changing the program back and I get the blame for it. My insurance comany would love me for that. Insurance is expensive enough now. After 12 months and a day has passed, the client is quite welcome to the password as defects liability has passed. I do not have any proprietary type code generally, but I can understand integrators protecting code from theft that they have spent many hours developing. And believe me, theft of code occurs regularly despite copywrite protection which is as useless as tits on a bull.
With the advent and further development of function blocks, it is now becoming possible to password protect only a function block. This means that proprietary code inside that function block can be protected and the rest of the program left clear for 'factory fiddlers'. However, I will continue to password protect any software I write until the end of the defects liability period.
The customer is then free to have the password and blow up all the $1 million engines he wants to. I might add that if the code is written and commissioned properly, there should be no need to alter it. Whenever I get called out to a service call on any of the systems I implement, everyone expects me to plug in the laptop. The first thing I do is pull out the drawings and check inputs and outputs by way of the LED indicators on the I/O cards. About 90% of the time I do not even have to open the laptop. The LEDs are usually the telling blow for trouble shooting, not the code itself. I might add that I do a site where access was required all the time.
I made them sign a legally binding contract to cover myself.Edited 26 Sep 2005 by BobB. Hi Bob, I hear what you are saying, however, in my line of business, unless you were willing to give me a guarantee that you could cover breakdowns within 30mins 24/7 my company wont be buying your goods Sir. If we stop production of our customer because we can't supply, the cost to us is around £1,500 per minute. Input/Output indicators are great, I agree most faults can be diagnosed visually at the PLC window.
However, in my experience I could give you a 1000 examples why adjusting the program, say you were not getting one of those inputs/outputs for various reasons, would be the simplest and quickest way to get the machine back on line. Timers, may need adjusting more often than anything else.
Whats more, when you design a machine for your customers its usually unique, designed to your customers requirements. So what faults occur in the machines infancy may be unique and difficult to foresee. Companies like mine can't sit around waiting for you guys to fix a fault like this, we have to be in there sorting it. And after a short while, the maintenance man will know the machine better than its creator, thats a fact.Edited 28 Sep 2005 by fosy. If you have to.work. on a machine (repair) 'that's been operating for years without interuptions,', why would you think that the PLC program is the problem. Do you believe in magical gnomes that sneak into your factory at midnight and re-program the PLC's or do you just believe that PLC's simply re-program themselves?
Once properly commissioned by qualified people, the PLC program should never have to be touched again. Some OEM's use passwords to ensure just that. It prevents some maintenance genius, like yourself, from turning ALWAYSOFF, ON, and then trying to get free support/changes/parts etc. If it's for changes or compliance then the source should be purchased from the OEM for that purpose.
If it was commisioned work, say through a CSIA integrator, then you own the source - if you have paid for it that is. The only other reasons to beg for a password cracking tool are: 1. Maintenance incompetence 2. You know, the thing is this: the password has nothing to do with IP protection, since you are protected by law anyway. Secondly, if you let people to get to the PLC anyway, it's pretty much the same if they. up the PLC or the rest of the stuff that's there. Use a lock in your cabinets.
That way, when there's a problem, atleast the lock can be smashed, if required, but people who have no business messing with the stuff can't access it. I would never let the situation be such, that some PLC company guy would have to come crack the pass for me and let the whole operation sit.
Hi.Sorry for the late response. I was onsite the whole of last week. This HMI was connected to a Q series back plate bus connection.
If this is connected, the interface loads with all the graphics and controls and I can do control on it. If I then try to connect to it from my latop with the software, it asks me for a password.
I then disconnected it and brought it back to our office for further testing and now when I power it up, it checks for the PLC which isn't there and then ask me for a password. I don't even get to the graphics.